中文 Quest

Yeah, I'm still here.

2011-10-06T21:32:00.000-05:00

After 5 years (五个年) here I am. Still at it.

I've been spending more time in the last month studying than I have since I began in 二零零七. When I have more time I will post more. Just wanted to check in. It has been 2 years (两个年) after all!

Update

2009-09-09T21:45:00.003-05:00

I'm still here.
I've been treading water for the last couple of years.
And it only took those two years to get 8 comments!
I'm not sure what direction I'm going to take my studies at this point.
It seems like an insurmountable obstacle. I'll be the first to admit I don't spend much time studying though. I hate to study. Always have.
I think I would be the perfect candidate for total immersion. I would learn something. Or make it my job.

Since last I posted I became a supervisor at my job and all the free time I had at work evaporated. Lunch evaporated the first year as I didn't schedule one and I let work overrun my life (at work and at home!).

What now?

Muzzy Review

2007-07-15T19:39:00.000-05:00

Early in my quest for good Chinese materials I discovered that I have to go for the kids stuff. I purchased some kids DVD's from the local Chinese mall, picked up a book here and there and researched what I could online. Honestly I was disappointed in what I found. The material was either too easy (can anyone say "dui") or too difficult. Then I came across Muzzy in Mandarin and read glowing reviews but the ridiculous price kept me away. Sure, there's the 30 day "return if you don't like it", but if you do like it, then you have to pay $200.

A month ago I said what the hell and ordered it. After waiting a week or so it finally arrived.

Guess what? It's great. I wish I would have had this when I started learning.

First the good stuff. The package includes 2 DVD's, clocking in at around an hour and a half. I'm sure it would fit on one DVD and I don't know why they didn't do that. There are 6 parts, 3 on each disc but the "episodes" run together so you don't even notice. You have the options of English, Pinyin, Chinese (Traditional or Simplified), and no subtitles (my preference so far). You also get 2 more DVD's with the same lessons in English, a book with the entire transcript in Chinese, English, and Pinyin, a DVD of additional vocab, and an audio CD I haven't even opened.
The quality is top notch. Honestly after watching it I'm completely baffled why others haven't produced something this good. It doesn't seem like it would be that difficult. The animation looks like it's from the late 70's or early 80's. The dialog is simple enough. It builds upon itself and introduces new concepts and words perfectly. The only "problem" is carried over from the English edition I'm guessing because there is a part covering the English alphabet (A-Z) and the Chinese pronunciation of . Completely skips CH-ZH pronunciation.

It's intended for children to sit in front of for hours upon hours upon hours... This is no "I'll watch it a few times and have it!". Repetition is key and they tell you so in the information that comes with the package.
Using the ChinesePod scale I would say the material is at an Elementary level, though if I were at a Newbie level I wouldn't hesitate to pick it up. If you can imagine Elementary material, but instead of a 30 second dialog two 40 minute cartoons with no English.

This is what I'm happy about. I want more and more Chinese input but at the same time I need to understand what is being said too. I can't listen to the Intermediate ChinesePod lessons because there's too much I don't understand. Muzzy provides the perfect solution. First the material is at my level. There is enough that I do understand interspersed with what I do not that I stay motivated and hungry for more. When something comes up that I don't understand I can either put on the subtitles or grab the enclosed book and grab a dictionary. Then the next time I watch it I'll know what is being said. And the next time, etc, etc. And eventually I'll be as familiar with "dong1tian1" as I am with "wo3 bu4 zhi1dao4".

The bad part: the price. $200 is RIDICULOUS for what amounts to 2 40 minute sessions. $200!!!! Even if it came with the 2nd part (which is currently an additional, you heard right, an additional $200 for 2 more 40 minutes sessions) would it be worth $200? Hell no!

OK, that's the only bad thing, but it's very bad. Very, very, bad.

If you forget about how much it costs then I would say this is by far the best learning material I've come across. The dialog is engaging (even for adults) and the visuals are incredibly helpful. I read a review from a parent that complained the material was a little too much for their child (a green, pointy nosed character, unrequited love, sticking a telephone in the bathtub, etc). I'll leave that to those of you who are parents to decide on.

Practice Plan Round 2

2007-07-08T14:41:00.000-05:00

I've signed up for another month of Practice Plan with ChinesePod. After speaking with Aggie she determined that the best bet would be for me to have 3 lessons a week and 2 days of review. Last week it was:

Sunday - Pets
Monday - Review
Tuesday - This Room is Too Small
Wednesday - Review
Thursday - Borrowing and Returning

I also started recording the discussions so I could go back and listen. Two things about recording: I sound terrible and it helps tremendously. One of the drawbacks to the lessons the first time around was trying to take notes while simultaneously attempting to pay attention to Vera. Now I don't worry about it. I always listen the next day and can take notes, press pause, etc.

Saturday I visited my old class for possibly the last time. We finished watching "Huozhe".
Great film. See it!

More later...

Huozhe

2007-07-01T17:39:00.000-05:00

I visited my old class 星期六。 It was very good to see everyone who was there.

We watched one of my favorite movies. In all honestly my favorite movie since I've seen it.
Zhang Yimou's "To Live", or 或者。

We only made it half way through the film. We stopped and reviewed some of the language in the film and aspects of the history. Kai was about the age of the 儿子 in the movie. Next week when we watch the other half I'm sure he will have more comments because he will be able to relate to even more of it.

As I told Bridgitt the previous week, there were tears. Thankfully she brought tissues. I can't imagine what it will be like next week! I can't recommend this movie enough, and this has nothing to do with it being a Chinese film.

After watching the first half again I was trying to determine whether it is melodramatic or just a reflection of what was happening.

I hope to put some notes on the language up at another time.
Till then, 再见。

It's Over (for now)

2007-06-21T22:26:00.000-05:00

Today was the last lesson. "A Ticket to Suzhou". Thankfully an easy lesson. The last few weeks have been intense. I don't really know how much I've gained from them because I haven't had time to think or reflect on the lessons. It's just one after another. And when you are living your life, working your ass off at work, and taking care of a house full of pets, you just stop thinking. Well, I do anyway.

So in retrospect what would I say? The time was incredible. I've experienced several months of classroom lessons and homework and now 2 months of daily 10 minute phone calls. There's no comparison. Kai, my first teacher, is great but is limited to one classroom session a week (unless I could come up with $45 for a private lessons here and there!). Working with Vera, though for only an hour a week, was more effective because it was constant. There was something new and something old everyday. Everyday. Repeat, repeat. The closest thing to immersion that I can imagine unless I moved to Chinatown and worked in an environment of friendly native speakers who would take the time to explain the finer points of their beautiful language to me!

I can also clearly see my strengths and weaknesses. Basic comprehension, especially when spoken slowly, is pretty good. Replying to questions in Chinese, not so good. Comprehending a full dialog with no hanzi or pinyin, poor. Directions with a map, horrendous!

I'm going back to my old class this weekend for a visit. Bridgitt, my only classmate from the beginning will be there and it will be great to see her, along with Eric.
Not sure who else will be there.

So what's next?

Two weeks "off". If I can muster the concentration two weeks focusing on grammar. I really feel like I'm on the precipice of getting basic grammar which will allow me to communicate on a basic level. I'm not planning on picking up any new vocab unless I download some of those new CPod lessons and get "the Fix" too. Then I'll be picking back up with Vera for another month. Not sure what will come after that. Language acquisition is becoming an expensive hobby!

And I Should Be...

2007-06-20T21:48:00.000-05:00

Studying. Instead I'm doing this. The day before my last Practice Plan lesson with ChinesePod for 2 weeks. I need a break. Bad. I was almost in tears on Monday. Sunday and Monday were lessons on directions. First of all, I'm not that good with directions. Making me give them in Chinese does not help. I felt ignorant, as though the thought of trying to learn Chinese was silly. Who do I think I am!

Well, yesterday and today were better. I hope to spend the next two weeks reviewing grammar. I've downplayed it for so long and now I'm being drawn to it. I've had too many reviews with Vera where I knew every word to say but not the order to put them in. That's the height of frustration for me.

I reached a plateau for a while and I feel like I'm starting to make some progress. It's strange that I'm desperate for a break and yet looking forward to the next set of lessons.

j

A Quick Update

2007-06-20T12:34:00.001-05:00

I'm on my final week. Too busy with the lessons to post anything here.
Once I have my final lesson this Thursday I plan on taking a two week break to study grammar, then picking it back up for a month.

Till then,
Zaijian!

Week 5

2007-05-28T18:00:00.000-05:00

Starting on Week 5, only 3 more left. I am more impressed now than I was to begin with. Vera is terrific. I was concerned the lessons and teaching would be rigid. I thought that regardless of progress (or regress) that she would maintain the same teaching style, going over each lesson the same way. This has not been the case. I haven't had any problem reading the dialogs so we spend less time on that than we used to and more time on translating and conversation.

She also incorporates more and more Chinese, again, based on what I am able to do. I don't mean that she keeps it so simple that I can easily answer or respond. No, the words and phrases are always just above what I am able to do. It's like working out. She's adding the weight to our lessons week by week. Very impressed.

I am very fortunate that I am able to test my abilities and weaknesses on a couple who are visiting from Beijing and staying with my former instructor. Last Friday Jenn and I had lunch (delicious noodles!) and conversed a little here and a little there in Chinese. I was able to recognize more than last time and they were surprised that my tones were so good. So was I!

I'm already thinking ahead. I can't afford to keep doing it month after month. I am hoping to go for a month, take a month off, etc, etc. Probably not the best option but when money is an object..., you know how it goes.

If only it had not taken a full month for me to get in the swing of things.

Newbie Comics 3

2007-05-28T17:53:00.000-05:00

From the lesson "Ordering Food":

Week 3

2007-05-16T19:17:00.000-05:00

All I can say is WHEW!

I've made it this far. And I still look forward to my calls each day. The combination of compressed work week and the call shortly after I get home is difficult. I think I've touched on this so I won't go on about it again.

I'm impressed once again that the lessons incorporate words from previous lessons providing a great system of review and expansion. For instance I had lessons separated by a week and a half that included the word 经常 (jing1chang2). I need as much of this as I can get.

It's also helping me realize I just can't learn it all at once. My goal before was to have a lesson memorized, to be able to pick it apart, and translate it without a transcript while listening. I have only been able to do this with Newbie lessons and was constantly disappointed that I could not do the same with Elementary lessons like this one. I could listen all day till I was sick and STILL not be able to translate all of it.

I still can't do it but I don't care either. I'm convinced I need repetitive and broad exposure to the language. It's too early in the game to determine how effective this will be in the long run but I have a good feeling about it and it keeps the experience fresh.

In the mean time I will direct you here to read about John Pasden's fascinating and humbling experience learning Chinese.

再见

An Update

2007-05-07T21:36:00.000-05:00

Still here.

My wife had surgery a couple of weeks ago and I was home taking care of her 24/7. With all that time you would think I would have really worked on my studies for ChinesePod right?

Wrong!

You underestimate how much I hate to study.

There were moments of discovery in that time, when sentence structures that Vera asked me to work on clicked in my mind. But then there were other things.

Today she asked me to translate "I never...". Well, I knew the rest of the words and the structure but forgot how to say "never" (my wife would concur) and just shut down at that point. Mental block.

It's true. I hate to study. My mother recently told me that I was gifted but easily bored. I asked if she meant gifted in the shortbus way or bright and she assured me she meant bright. I was in all the advanced classes in High School but did terrible because I hated the classes. Instead I went home and read Steinbeck and King (Stephen).

So Vera (and Kai), I give you my apologies, I am a terrible student.

Oh yes, an update on the 8 week course. Well, not much to report since China had a week long national holiday which meant no calls for a week. We started back today and I did terrible.

Speaking of starting back today I went back to work for the first time in 11 days (hey, when I said Jenn couldn't do anything I wasn't kidding!). The combined stress of being back at work and having studied very little for the lesson tonight almost gave me a coronary.

Well, there's always tomorrow.

Listening and Understanding

2007-04-27T22:59:00.000-05:00

I wish I could remember the point in my life when I heard "don't touch that" and knew what it meant because I knew what the words "don't" "touch" and "that" meant. Of course we know based on the corrective tone and fierce look in our parents eyes. But when do we "get it"?
It reminds me of the classic Far Side comic:

Brendan over at Peeling Mandarin and Edwin at Tower of Confusion have both mentioned this. During one of my Practice phone calls I told Vera that I struggle to understand what I'm hearing in the Podcast dialogs. When I hear or read the words out of context I understand most of them.

It all points to something Steve Kaufmann has said was essential: tons of time spent listening to the target language. I admit that I neglect this, much to my chagrin. I believe part of it is laziness (just being honest!). The other part of it is lack of comprehension. My brain just hears it all like the dog in Gary Larson's comic. Sure there are words I understand from time to time but the rest is meaningless. But what really gets me is that if I stop and see a transcript from a lesson I know some of the words I was unable to distinguish when I was listening.

Now that I've stated my delima, I'm hoping that some fellow language enthusiasts will post about their experience in regards to comprehending their new language.

Week One - Recap

2007-04-27T22:41:00.000-05:00

The first week of ChinesePod Practice is complete. Five elementary lessons in five days. Five phone calls from China. Five days of anxiety, excitement, and amazement. Anxious because I never felt prepared enough. Excited because I finally had a chance to practice Chinese. Amazement because I remembered more after each ten minute phone call than I had after listening and studying some elementary lessons for hours!

Overall I would say it's been a great week.

I have a few observations from the first week.

The most beneficial part of the phone call (for me) is translating from English to Chinese. Vera will give me a sentence in English which I must translate. Typically half the words are from the lessons, the other half they assume you know. Some I do and some I don't. If I don't I just tell her I don't know it and she tells me. I then proceed to translate. It's like working out for the first time. You use muscles you didn't know you had. You strain to do the minimum repetitions. When you're done you're exhausted . The next time you work out that muscle it's still difficult but not quite as difficult.

My translation muscles are nearly non-existent. I have to work very hard to squeeze out the simplest of sentences. Sure, I can translate "hello" but "I study Chinese everyday" and I'm almost in tears. I know the words individually but putting them together into a coherent sentence is hard work.

There were a few times Vera had to correct my tones which is a relief. People tell me my pronunciation is good but it's not perfect. If she never corrected me I would be concerned.

I want to come up with some sort of review for the end of the week. I'm somewhat surprised CPod doesn't have anything like this already. I plan on reviewing all the lessons tomorrow and working on some more English to Chinese translations.

Oh No!

2007-04-25T22:49:00.000-05:00

That's my new slogan for evenings Sunday through Thursday. I work a compressed work week (from 8-7, Monday - Thursday) and get my daily call from Vera at 8:10. There just doesn't seem to be enough time to spend with each lesson, to dig into it and internalize the language.

Stephen King said in "On Writing" that the late Kurt Vonnegut would work on one page until it was perfect. He didn't write a book and revise it. He wrote and revised all at once. He would apparently, if Mr. King is correct, throw entire pages away and start rewriting until the text was perfect.

My mind works this way too. It wants every pronunciation, ever possible shade of meaning, every tone just right before it moves on to the next word. Because there is a fear that if I let it go now it will never be right. Talk about maddening! One of the beauties for me working on the Practice plan is that I have no choice. I have a set of lessons in a set order and I have to go through them in that order. I don't have time to get every word and I don't have time to care if I get every word because once one lesson is done there's another. And another. And another. For 7 more weeks. The interesting thing (so far) is I believe my vocabulary is increasing. Not enough for my tastes but more than it did before.

I'll post a recap for the week on Friday or Saturday.

Lesson One

2007-04-23T13:05:00.000-05:00

Last night I had my first Practice lesson with a ChinesePod counselor. How was it you ask?

In a word, excellent. For me, reviewing with someone who knows the language (or knows it far better than I) is critical.

After speaking with Aggie a couple of times I was concerned that whoever I got was not going to be as qualified. After all, Aggie was the great Frank Fredella’s counselor. Thankfully my fears were for nothing. My counselor, Vera, is terrific. Sympathetic, encouraging, and available for questions via email at any time!

To begin Vera had me read the dialog from the transcript for this lesson. She said my pronunciation was good. Next we reviewed critical vocab from the lesson. She would pick a word and ask me the meaning. Then the difficult part: translating English sentences into Chinese.

I seem to have great difficulty here. I know the words but putting them together to form sentences is a problem.

Here is an example from last night.

Translate “I want dinner first’.

In my mind I have 我 “wo3”, 先 “xian1”, and 想 “xiang3”.

Dinner is a bit tricky. I’m thinking 吃 “chi1” but not sure if this is correct and not sure what should follow it. Should it be 饭 “fan4” or should it be something completely different?

I’m lost.

Then there is the word order. Is it 我先想 or 先我想

So the combination of not knowing the order or the correct word was stressful.

After some struggling and help from Vera I got 我先想吃饭.

This continued for several minutes with different key words from the lesson. Then the call was over. I walked away from the call with my mind racing, thinking over everything I said and what she asked me to review for tomorrow.

Overall I was very impressed. My only concern would be over the tones. For instance one of the phrases Vera asked for was “wash hands”. I knew hand was? “shou”.

What I could not remember was the tone. I said it with the first tone but was doubtful. Later I checked and it should have been the third tone. Vera didn’t correct me I assume, because of the phone connection. There were a few moments when she started to cut out so maybe she didn’t catch it. Or maybe she’ll mention it today. I don’t know. But I want to be sure I get them right. I’ll keep my proverbial eye on it.

I don’t intend on posting about every single lesson, but I’ll be posting as much as I can over the next couple of months. Hopefully I’ll get some more chances to use the language too!

The Final Countdown

2007-04-22T15:48:00.000-05:00

I couldn't help myself with the title, especially being a big fan of "Arrested Development".

Anyway, I got the assessment call from Aggie on Friday. And, and...

I'm at an Elementary level!

I was in shock, and somewhat horrified because she said they would assign 40 Elementary level lessons to me over the next 8 weeks. My comprehension of Chinese grammar is weak so I'm hoping this will help.

What I found interesting is a conversation I had with a friend this weekend about learning. He said that to become better at something required you to practice AND to push yourself beyond what you are able to do. So if you're listening to Newbie lessons and can breeze through them the push yourself and start working on Elementary. I'm preaching to myself here I know.

For some reason this seems more terrifying than when I originally signed up for Chinese classes in the first place. Maybe it's because I have some idea of what I'm in for now?

Aggie was terrific and very encouraging during our phone call. To assess my "level" she read a number of sentences and asked me to tell her the meaning in English. When we were done I got the results. She also said (as some others have) that my pronunciation was good. A little encouragement can do wonders to your enthusiasm and willingness to keep going.

Time to study. I get my first phone call in 3 hours.

再见，，
j

Newbie Comics 2

2007-04-22T15:45:00.000-05:00

From the lesson "I'm Not Hungry".

The Countdown

2007-04-19T06:35:00.000-05:00

I received my first phone call from Aggie at ChinesePod last night. After a week or so of emailing back and forth and missing the first call due to a misunderstanding of the time/date difference we finally connected.

The introductory call was an explanation of what will happen during the next 8 weeks. For those who have not read about it on the CPod site participants in the 8 week program receive an introductory evaluation of their abilities. The counselor then picks 40 lessons to be covered over the 8 weeks. Each day (Sunday-Thursday, or Monday-Friday Shanghai time) I will receive a call from the counselor to review that days lesson.

I hope this reinforces each lesson and will write it to my long term memory. Getting it in the short term is "meiwenti". Retention and the ability to use it are difficult for me though.

I plan on posting updates on the blog more often than I have been. Really, I do.

Chinese Comics for Newbies

2007-04-15T16:57:00.000-05:00

I spend a little bit of time reviewing characters at work. I thought it would be so much easier if there was some context for them, incorporating some visual aid. Comics are great at that and my dad is an artist/illustrator and that was it.

Here is the result. I hope there will be more but he's a busy guy so it depends on his availability.
The dialog was taken from this lesson.

Hope you enjoy!

The End of the Beginning

2007-04-10T21:50:00.000-05:00

Saturday was my last class session. I'm really going to miss the group.

From Left to Right: Bridgitt, Kai (laoshi), me, Elizabeth, Eric, Fred, Johnny, and Michael.

I've been meeting with some incarnation of this group for the last 45 weeks! Bridgitt and I were there from the beginning. I think this group will continue to meet sans Elizabeth and myself. I hope to see them on Saturdays at a local Chinese restaurant (hint, hint!) or the Chinese mall in Atlanta.

For the next couple of months I'm going to try out the 8 week program offered by ChinesePod. I've mentioned in previous posts that I was interested in this but didn't think it was going to be possible. Recently I received an email from Eileen at CPod with an offer to try it out (yes, I still have to pay!)

I hope to be reporting on my progress in the near future.

Honestly I haven't been spending too much time with the language lately. I've been entirely too occupied with this. I thought about posting a screen shot of how much time I've spent on it but I would have to hang my head in shame. I'm almost done with it so that won't be an obstacle after next week. Hehe...

Enough for now. I just hope I haven't forgotten too much.

PS: For all of those who have posted comments I promise to respond at a later date. So sorry...

Long Overdue

2007-03-27T21:53:00.000-05:00

Well, it's been some time since I've been back here. Not intentional mind you, just 很忙。 I've been promoted at work (yea!) after a month of semi-intense training. On top of that we've just been exceptionally busy (people leaving, people getting hired, lots of calls) which has left little time at work to study. Sounds crazy but I have been able to learn so much while there. In between calls and waiting on hold are great times for me. The last month or so they have been few and far between.

Thanks to the change in weather though I've been able to get out at lunch and walk the parking lot, listen to CPod and mumble to myself while sneaking glances to make sure no one heard me. Can you image what it must sound like to someone walking by to hear "you kong de shi hou" and "wo jue de"!

I'll have some news about class in a few weeks but nothing at the moment. We have had great classes the last two weeks though. The Saturday before last we had a visitor from China (who I hope to spend more time with soon) and this week a 美国人 who speaks exceptional (he took exception to the term fluent so I'll say exceptional) Chinese. He speaks a number of other languages too so I'm not too surprised, and he is currently learning Korean.

Enough for now. Past time for bed.
Later...

What Helps 我

2007-03-02T21:48:00.000-05:00

The first year of my 中文 quest is coming to a close. As a result of this, my previous post, and continued discussion on the CPod Blog, I've nailed down a few things that I find essential for my learning experience in no particular order.

1. Dynamic Input- This has taken two forms for me. Classroom experience and ChinesePod podcasts. I have six discs of audio to accompany two textbooks, a brief audio course I downloaded from Audible, and other miscellaneous resources. I will add Chinese films but these have not helped me learn any new words, rather they have enforced what I have already learned.

2. Speaking-I didn't know how much this helped until I stopped doing it for a couple of weeks. I need to repeat back what I've learned the way an actor rehearses lines. I don't know if this would be as important if I were learning a non-tonal language. Since the tones are important it helps me to practice them. Initially in isolation and now in sentences.

3. Reading-Initially this meant 拼音 and only 拼音。Now it means 汉字。In the grand scale of things I know this is for the best. But the reason I started paying attention to 汉字 is they are so damn interesting. Sure they may seem to be endless and impossible to distinguish, but now they are like little mysteries to be discovered.

4. Time-I can’t take it for granted. It takes time and lots of it to learn any language or accomplish any great task. I hope I’m not accused of claiming learning Chinese is a task I will ever complete because I don’t believe that. However I do believe there comes a time when I could become proficient enough to have a basic conversation with a child and if I continue a basic conversation with an adult, etc.

5. Determination- Will power, effort, whatever you want to call it. The things I love the most in life require a certain measure of effort. Learning Chinese will no doubt be in the top five of difficult tasks. And that’s OK.

I’ll be changing direction a bit in the coming months and look forward to seeing the outcome. For one I’m looking into the Octagon, a program that ChinesePod is promoting. Eight weeks of lessons with a ten minute call each day from a native speaker. Author Frank Fredella was the guinea pig for the program and saw definite results. I mentioned Chinese language boot camp and that it might be useful. This is as close to it as I can get and since there is a time frame (as opposed to an open ended God only knows when it’s going to end scenario) I’m interested. It’s not cheap though and it’s tax time. And I’m not getting a refund (insert tears).
So if it’s still going in a few months I’ll probably sign up.

Enough for now. Gotta get to bed soon. Class tomorrow morning.

Language Debate

2007-02-19T22:10:00.000-05:00

Last week I was reading about Steve Kaufmann, a gentleman who has learned 9 languages over the years. His approach focuses on massive amounts of input in the target language. From what I've read he does not promote pressuring a new learning to use the language until the person has heard enough to produce the language naturally. I suppose this is like taking in so much that at a certain point you just have to let it out.

I haven't read enough to have more details that that. There was quite a post going on over at the CPod blog about him though the day after I started reading about Steve. Wow, what timing! I guess the one thing I've taken away from all of it is the desire to hear more and more Mandarin. I suppose there's some note of progress from listening to all those classes, CPod podcasts, and Mainland Chinese films (Zhang Yimou- the man!). Jenn and I were watching "Infernal Affairs 3". Part of the plot involves a Hong Kong triad leader linking up with a corrupt arms dealer from Mainland China. I was shocked to discover I could tell the difference between the Cantonese dialogue and the little bits of 普通话 (putonghua) dialogue.

Ken Carroll has mentioned total physical response (TPR) in language learning but I am having a hard time finding any material at my beginner level. There have been a couple of CPod podcasts that involve listening to the lesson and following the directions on a map. I'm interested in finding some good children's DVDs. I came across "Muzzy" which sounds promising but terribly expensive. The one justification I could have for that is when we have our own child we will already have something for her to watch. The most intriguing aspect of the videos is, from what I can tell, they are completely in the target language. I also found some children's DVD's at a store in Chinatown in Atlanta, Ga. 6 DVD set for $13.95. Even if they are terrible it may be worth it at that price.

But the reason we went there in the first place was to find some children's books with no English and limited 汉字 (Hanzi). Believe it or not I couldn't find anything that was exactly what I wanted. I might have to make my own.

In the mean time I am listening the Newbie lessons from ChinesePod and digging into the premium content (especially the expansion sentences). I'm also taking some of the pressure off internally, just not worrying so much and enjoying the ride. Having started learning 汉字 has added a new dimension that keeps the experience fresh and exciting.

FSI-RIP

2007-02-13T19:18:00.001-05:00

I quit the FSI course. I might come back to it later. I did learn quite well about asking where someone is from and what their name is.

I'm back to CPod again. Having used bittorrent to download all the lessons and getting then organized into levels (so I don't have to right click, save as, etc on each lesson) makes it much easier to choose the lessons and put them on this.

After spending more time with the podcasts and especially the Premium features I have finally put my finger on why I don't like the other materials I've come across. There is simply too much there.

I have a short attention span. I need information, of nearly any kind, in small chunks. I go to class for 2 hours a week but I know going in that I will only retain a portion of what I heard. That's why I take as many notes as I can and record the class on this. I can always go back and dig in later without worrying about what I might have missed. With ChinesePod I know I'm getting portions appropriate to my learning ability and level of proficiency. The podcasts are interesting. I actually enjoy them. I cannot say that much about the discs that came with either of our text books. They are not overwhelming. Though we are spending 2-3 weeks on a chapter with 40-50 new words, it seems like too much. If they gave you 10 new words here, then a few pages over another 10-15 words, etc, I would enjoy it more.

I'm almost disgusted with myself, I sound like an advertisement but I swear I'm receiving nothing (other than what any other Premium subscriber gets) from CPod.

I'm going back to early lessons and the premium features are somewhat lacking. I'm looking forward to getting to the lessons which included additional sentences that you can click on for expansion. You can click to your hearts desire. I've noticed I will repeat sentences after the reader, working out the tones and repeating them back. It's helped a lot. I liken it to acting, imitating what someone else is saying.

Ultimately I've found that the material I've worked with and enjoyed from ChinesePod has stuck with me the best. Even the non-language stuff like Jenny talking about dressing her mother in leopard print from this lesson.

Just some observations to note at this point. More on characters another time.

Time

2007-02-05T21:43:00.000-05:00

So little time lately. Very frustrating. 我很忙 with work this last month. I've been so focused on it that my study time has suffered. I feel like I'm falling WAY behind (mentally anyway).
The toughest part will be over this Thursday after I've given my presentation to management. I'll be able to breath a bit easier.

In the mean time, I've gone through the first FSI module on introductions and places. The repetition has helped a lot though the material seems a bit dated. When I asked Kai if they still use 同志 (tong2zhi4) = comrade he said only for officials and official documents. If it ever comes into vogue I'll be ahead of the curve!

I spent about 30 minutes going through lesson 9 last night in our textbook and was having a hard time with it. Maybe I'm spoiled with ChinesePod. Somehow the lessons along with Ken and Jenny's comments bring it alive for me and I retain much better. I've got the discs that come with the text and they help a little. And I mean a little. It's so frustrating wondering if I would be learning more in a different context but there's no way to know. Sorry to be venting!

On a final note I think the community of non native Chinese learners should put together a list of movies that are good for beginners. That there are words and phrases that a beginner is able to understand. "Not One Less" comes to mind. I watched "Riding Alone for 1000's of Miles" for the second time this weekend and loved it. It is interesting from a linguistic point of view because of the inability of the main character who is Japanese to understand all those around him who are speaking 中文。 The dialogue was a bit too fast for me to understand much though. I saw a preview for "Saving Face" and understood a little of the dialogue.

再见
j

星期六二月三号

2007-02-04T18:24:00.000-05:00

大家好，

We have officially started Chinese 201. Classes are for 10 weeks, 2 hours a week. Myself and a handful of others have continued through 101-103 and chosen to stick with it. I don't know enough about the stats for the school but it seems that many people lose interest before they get to the point we are at. I've enjoyed getting to know fellow travelers who are on the same quest.

This week we were joined by two gentlemen who are interested in the class. It's interesting to see what new people will add to the experience. Last semester we had a Korean 小姐 who was very bold and was not afraid to speak up in class. It was great! It certainly helped me speak up. She now teaches a Korean class at the same time so she is not able to join us any longer.

We reviewed the first half of Lesson 九 and added a few vocab to the previously assigned list:

东西 dong1xi = things, objects
要 yao4 = to want to, to have a desire for
钱 qian2 = money
多少 duo1shao = how much, how many
百 bai3 = 100

We discussed the differences between 想 xiang3 = (to like, a personal wish, also meaning to miss someone) and 喜欢 xi3huan1 = (to like), and 要 yao4 = (to want) and 需要 xu1yao4 = (want, in the sense of needing something).

I noted that 想 was somewhere between 要 and 喜欢.

Earlier in the week I asked Kai to bring in his brush and ink to write some characters on a thank you cards we are sending to the adoption agency we are working with. Once he was done with the cards he asked if I would like my name written out, which of course I did. As always I was amazed at the beauty of the characters and mesmerized watching him write. Here is a scan of my name:

Vocab

2007-01-27T22:28:00.000-05:00

大 da4 = big
中 zhong1 = medium, middle
小 xiao3 = small
北 bei3 = north
南 nan2 = south
东 dong1 = east
西 xi1 = west
号 hao4 = number, size
红 hong2 = red
黄 huang2 = yellow
绿 lu4 = green
买 mai3 = buy
卖 mai4 = sell

Non-Native Speakers Speaking Out

2007-01-25T21:43:00.000-05:00

One of the blogs I frequent is Lingual Bee. His post on January 25th 07 entitled "The Advantages of Talking to Other Non-Native Speakers" was great. I work with a guy from Malaysia who speaks Mandarin and English fluently. My Chinese instructor is the same, fluent in both (with some knowledge of French and Cantonese thrown in) and I am intimidated speaking to them both. However I don't feel the same pressure with my classmates and am generally encouraged in those rare moments when we share a word or two.

What Would You Do?

2007-01-24T20:50:00.000-05:00

If you were enrolled in a 10 week language course and you had a say in the class structure, what would you suggest?

That's what a classmate and I were talking about on Saturday after class. We plan on getting together and discussing possible ideas for the next 10 weeks (and maybe more).

Any ideas?

Duh about "de"

2007-01-24T20:48:00.000-05:00

We had a great class last week. We started with a list of proverbs containing numbers. Shortly after the sheet was passed out we realized we had seen it before. It was originally given to us in our first session many months ago. Try as we may we did not understand some of them though. Coming to grips with the numbers losing their meanings and the logic behind the sayings was taking every ounce of brain power I had. Here are a few of the “number proverbs” in the list

一五一十 (yi wu yi shi) = in detail
三天两头 (san tian liang tou) = every other day
五光十色 (wu guang shi se) = colorful
八九不离十 (ba jiu bu li shi) = almost
九牛二虎 (jiu niu er hu) = the combined strength of nine oxen and two tigers
十全十美 (shi quan shi mei) = perfect

The real fun started when we got to 的，地, and 得. I’m afraid that at this point my grasp on the three is so tenuous that I’m just going to post my notes and make no comments on them.

“All modifiers must come before the noun.”
“的, besides indicating possession, must come before two syllable adjectives modifying a noun.”

The example I have written here is:

她是一个好妈妈，好朋友。

她是一个很好的妈妈，好朋友。

In the first sentence only 好 is modifying 妈妈, hence no 的.
In the second sentence 很好 is modifying 妈妈, necessitating the inclusion of 的.

Oh, and someone sneezed. Instead of “bless you” we can say 一百岁 “yi bai sui”, or “longevity”.

The Method

2007-01-19T22:08:00.000-05:00

There's quite a stir over on the CPod Blog about language acquisition methods. Someone posted a comment about CPod being in conflict with the Pimsleur method. I'm too tired to say much, but I agree with Ken that I don't believe there is one standard approach to learning a language. In fact I'm not so sure there's a standard approach to learning many things in life. Learning to play a musical instrument comes to mind. The only consistent factors seem to be time, willpower, and exposure.

Speaking of which I've been spending 45 minutes to an hour with the FSI material and so far am impressed. More on that later.

Anonymous Poster

2007-01-14T22:49:00.000-05:00

Dear Anonymous,

You have a point. I spend entirely too much time looking around and not enough time getting down to business. Honestly, I hate to study. I'm an immersion guy. Force me into the situation and I'm all over it. That's what I do at work. I support specialized software for Dentists. I knew nothing about it, I got some training, and now I can support it effectively. I "get" it. When I started the job, I couldn't have been more intimidated. I was ready to quit, thinking I had gotten way over my head. But I had to have a job and the pay was pretty damn good compared to what I was getting. I just told myself I would get through it.

If it was something I was doing for personal enrichment I would still be at the beginning stages. Even if it was something I enjoyed. Just laziness I suppose. Passivity. Which is why I believe the suggestions I had gotten about going to China, even for a short amount of time, would be very helpful. Unfortunately that's not feasible right now. And on a side note neither is adopting. With China's new regulations we have to wait a few years which has been quite a blow to my wife and I.

I say all that to say that I have decided to stop looking around for the "perfect" materials. I found a link to the Foreign Service Institutes language course in MP3 for the right price.
It's just my speed, it doesn't pretend to be everything (no characters, focus on speaking and comprehension) which will also encourage my mind to wander just enough to keep it interesting. I can practice reading and writing 汉字 hanzi in those spare moments.

I still have the class too. It looked like it was coming to an end. I asked the owner of the language institute if we were going to continue and he asked the other class members. I was very happy to discover they also wanted to continue. There is a core group of three (including myself) and a few others who come when they can. Having the class to attend each week provides a good deal of motivation (as does the $350 clams I have to pay every 10 weeks!).

So anonymous, I'm going to take your advice and buckle down for a little bit. I won't be filling out mountains of paperwork like I thought I would be so I'll have more time than I anticipated.

Again, to all those who have commented I just want to say 谢谢 for the encouragement.

Note to Self - 1

2007-01-07T19:56:00.000-05:00

汉字 "hanzi" study for most of the week. Class on 星期六 was a reminder of how important it is to spend copious amounts of time listening to the language. When instructor Kai begins speaking in Mandarin, even sentences we have reviewed many times over, I am lost. I have to ask him (several times) what he is saying. As the words are repeated and slowed down my mind pieces it together and I understand what he is saying. It's so embarrassing!

The flip side of course is that it keeps my learning in perspective. I find it easy to become excited about how much I seem to be learning only to forget how much I don't know.

I'm considering an MP3 structured course for a while, forcing myself through some program. I found an interesting post on the CPod blog which in turn led to a link to the Foreign Service Institute's MP3's of old cassettes that someone digitized. I'm listening now as I write this. I would love to try the Rosetta Stone course but don't have the cash to fork over for it now. I understand it's total immersion which I find fascinating. I would love to hear any feedback about that course (or any of the other standard courses available).

十二月 Last Class

2006-12-31T19:31:00.000-05:00

Yesterday was the first class I've been to in a few weeks. Nearly everyone was out so it was myself and two others, almost like a private class.

Since this is my first post about a class I will start off by saying the structure is very fluid and open. We are free to stop our instructor at anytime to ask questions about what we are learning. We spend a few minutes discussing 中国 "Zhongguo". Sometimes longer because we are fascinated by the stories.

There is typically a handout or a free form assignment with the intent of getting us to actually speak in class. This is the hardest part for various reasons. Primarily embarrassment because I don't know the words to say, don't know the grammar, afraid I will say something incorrectly, and general shyness. It reminds me of John Pasden's post about teaching 英文 “yingwin" in China and how students are afraid to open up. The craziest part is our instructor is incredibly gracious and would never make me or any other student feel stupid no matter how terribly we mangle 中文 "zhongwen".

We spend the remainder of the class in our text, "Integrated Chinese-Level 1 Part 1" (Simplified Character Edition)"

We're in 第八课 "Di ba ke" at the moment.

Since there were so few in class yesterday I took the liberty of asking more questions than I typically would.
For instance:
The difference between 大家 "dajia" and 人人 "renren". 大家 refers to eveyone in a group, like when Jenny Zhu says 大家好 on ChinesePod she's talking to those listening to the podcast, to her students. However, if she were addressing everyone in the world, regardless of whether they were her students or not, she would say 人人.

同 "tong" = same
同学 "tongxue" = classmate
同事 "co-worker" = co-worker
同人 "tongren" = business partner
同乡 "tongxiang" = people from the same hometown

We were discussing a passage from a 日记 “riji" when we came across 上午 "shangwu". This led the parts of the day, which we've been over so many times and I can never get them right.
I remember 早上 "zaoshang" no problem. It's all the other parts of the day I can't remember.
So I wrote them down again, swearing I would remember them this time.

Somehow we ended up on the topic of tenses. There was a sentence with the word 找到 "zhaodao". Kai (that's our instructor) explained that there were many instances of having a verb + compliment and went on to describe how 找 "zhao" meant to search for, look for, or find something where as 找到 "zhaodao" meant that the item searched for was found. Essentially 找 reached it's conclusion.

He followed this up with another example. To 看 “kan" is to look at something. Whether or not you saw it is not known simply by saying 看. However, if you say 看到 "kandao" means you looked and you saw. The action (看) was completed. These examples helped me so much. Something just clicked. We've been over this before, I've read it in the text, read it online, etc. but the light bulb never went off. Yesterday it did. I can now study it with the anticipation of understanding.

We concluded the class by reviewing the tenses we've learned so far.
Verb + 了 "le" - perfect tense
Verb + 过 "guo" - past tense
Verb + 着 “zhe" - status

The last one I'm not clear on.
在 "zai"
正在 "zhengzai" was used as the example and all my notes say are "Continuous Tense" (i'm not a very good note taker).
Is it Verb + 在?

We then went through a few sentences using each of the tenses. We requested that Kai spend time in our next class session going over these in more detail. I'm looking forward to the next class.

Enough for now.
再见

Browsing at Borders

2006-12-27T21:12:00.000-05:00

Out on the town with friends last week. We ended up at Borders. He had to return an item so I wondered up to the Foreign Language section. Ahh, the Chinese books, dictionaries, and flash cards.

We had a coupon for 30% off and I let my wife pick. She chose this:

The front shows the character and a few phrases or words containing the character, the back has the pinyin for the character and the phrases listed on the front. I wouldn't say they were anything extraordinary but they have inspired me. I've been taking them out and reviewing and enjoying it. Today while working I had them on my desk and went through a few between calls. I was copying the characters over and over on my legal pad.
Here are the few for the day:
字 “zi"
什么 "shenme"
你 "ni"
名 "ming"
I've purposely been avoiding characters but this has been invigorating. Let's see what I can accomplish tomorrow.

In the meantime I've been contemplating this book: Reading & Writing Chinese-Simplified Edition. I've read mixed reviews but having reviewed it in the store I was impressed. I'll be the first to admit I don't know enough about characters to know a "good" book from a "bad" one but I liked what I saw.

I also wanted to say thanks to everyone who commented recently. I was very encouraged by the comments. I was wondering how so many people had found the blog so quickly. Tonight I was reading Ken Carroll's blog and found out why. Ken, if you see this, thanks for everything you do.

To Karen at acmepost

2006-12-27T21:05:00.000-05:00

There was no email address to get back with you.
Please send me your email address.
Thanks,
Jeremy

Talk Mandarin Today

2006-12-22T19:27:00.000-05:00

For some reason the ALI settled on this book, "Talk Mandarin Today".

If your goal is to learn Mandarin for business, this is the book for you. Maybe business students are the ones they usually have sign up for the class. It is Atlanta after all, lots of business. Thankfully the instructor did not require the book for the first month. He instead took his time making sure we knew our 拼音 “pinyin”. To keep things interesting he also brought photocopied sheets from other books.

The fateful day came and we started lesson one:

(To see the rest of the lesson text, click here and search inside the book)

In retrospect I suppose it could be worse. But then I got out the CD for lesson one and listened to the dialogue. I've wondered who has used this book and found success with it. I sure didn't. The dialogue is read at a quick clip, the way you and I speak in our mother tongues. This is for beginners? I had to rip the tracks to my computer and use some software to slow it down. This effectively made the dialogue comprehensible and masculine. She was now a he on drugs.

After seven lessons and many complaints (which our instructor was gracious enough to listen to) we have switched to a new text.

I'm glad I've got the book. I did learn a few things from it. There are still words I remember from our lessons in this book. I wouldn't recommend it as starting text though. Unless you're all business.

Anyone else out there used this book?

Time Off

2006-12-21T13:08:00.000-05:00

No work and no Chinese class this week.

No study either. I've been so busy working on the house lately.

However, I did watch "The Promise", Chen Kaige's latest film. I had heard so many terrible things about the movie the only reason I watched it was for the language. It didn't turn out too bad though.

A quick note on the movie itself: The CGI is substandard compared to what we're used to from Hollywood blockbusters. The story is not as difficult to follow as the reviews I'd read. It was actually straightforward. It was a good sick movie, or one you watch on a Saturday afternoon when you have nothing else to do. Not a classic though, not a "Farewell, My Concubine", "Emperor and the Assassin", or "Temptress Moon".

It was great to pick up the Mandarin though. I've never heard 是 "shi" so many times. Also 我知道 "wo zhi dao" and 我不知道 "wo bu zhi dao" were said frequently. A few words here and there were obvious, but still mostly a blur. I don't expect to understand a lot of a feature length movie in Mandarin for some time, but it is very encouraging to pick out a word here and there.

Tonight or tomorrow night I have "Balzac and the Little Chinese Seamstress". Thank God for IMDB, I can get the Chinese titles also. Apparently the English title is much longer. The Chinese is 小裁缝 "Xiao Caifeng", or Small Seamstress.

再见

Progress

2006-12-18T09:54:00.000-05:00

I woke up this morning thinking about my progress so far. I was very discouraged. I've never been much for studying in the traditional manner. It may be sign of laziness. So when I sit down to learn a little more Mandarin I find myself distracted. I want to check the email, I'm thinking of all the things in the house to do, etc.

I know I've learned a lot in the last few months but I don't know how much? I am constantly wondering if I could have learned more if only (fill in the blank). I'll never know for sure.

Since I do not attend a University there is no grade attached to my performance. Everything is done out of a personal desire to learn the language. Sometimes that desire is stronger than others. Sometimes I wish I had the structure of a class to keep me on track, even at times of frustration.

So back to my original statement. Progress. If there are no tests, not grades, no one to talk to, how do you know how you're coming along with something? So far all I know is my pronunciation is better, I recognize more words than before, and I can listen to many of the ChinesePod Newbie lessons and recognize most of what's said. I know that's progress. I can distinctly remember a time when recognizing words in the Newbie lessons was a challenge. Now that honor is reserved for the Elementary lessons.

I always try to keep in mind what Instructor Kai told us the first day of class.
"If you stop, you will never make it. If you keep going, no matter how slow, you will one day arrive."

Introduction

2006-12-16T13:54:00.000-05:00

On the first day of class, my instructor Zhao Kai told us to keep a diary. I wasn't sure what to write so I didn't write anything. Since then I've been scattering notes about Chinese grammar on yellow legal pads at work and Hanzi on opened envelopes at home. I have quick links to some great resources on my laptop, desktop, and work computer. I have notebooks, 3 ring binders, and text books everywhere. I have podcasts on my MP3 player. I have Chinese films flooding in from Netflix and Blockbuster. I'm surrounded. This is my first attempt to bring some kind of order to all of it.

I'll start with why I'm here. Why Mandarin? After all, my heritage is Spanish. I took two semesters of it in college. Why not go with something easier, something more practical? My grandfather, my dad, and what seems like every Jose, Manuel, and Rodriguez speak Spanish in my neck of the woods. Why Chinese?

It all began in High School.

We were reading Pearl Buck's "The Good Earth". I remember getting through the book begrudgingly until the last page. And then it hit me. I loved the book. Later I read Amy Tan's "The Joy Luck Club" and "The 100 Secret Senses". Suddenly I wanted to learn the language. I didn't know there was a difference between Mandarin and Cantonese, or how I would learn a language that wasn't offered in school (nor college) in my tiny town of Pensacola, FL. With no avenue to pursue the language it was pushed to the back of my mind.

Years later I learned about the plight of so many Chinese children who needed homes, the majority of them females. Before my wife, Jennifer, and I got married we discussed children. We agreed we wanted to adopt. She had not given much thought about where she would want to adopt from but I had my heart set on China. As the years went by and numerous discussions followed she agreed. We would one day have a daughter from halfway around the world.

In 2005 we moved to Atlanta, GA. I was getting close to the minimum required age for Chinese adoption (30!) and was thinking of learning Chinese again. Jenn and I both want our child to remain connected to her heritage and language is a vital part of it. Surfing the web for Chinese language resources in Atlanta brought me to the Atlanta Language Institute. I discovered that they offered Chinese with 10 week classes or private lessons. I discussed it with Jenn and she encouraged me to do it. I signed up for class and waited patiently for the start date.

The week before the class I received a call that we would not be having class. The instructor had to go to China for family business. I had waited 10 years, what was another 2 weeks?

The first Saturday (星期六) rolled around. The class was small. Beside the teacher I was the only man in the class. I wasn't sure what to expect as we started. We began with the basics, pinyin (拼音) and common phrases like 你好 Ni Hao "hello" and 谢谢 Xiexie "thanks". It was exhilarating, to finally be acting upon a desire I had had for so many years!

That's how I got where I am now. I'm looking forward to posting notes from my journey.